View Full Version : motor upgrade
dirty dog
17-07-2010, 16:42
After some help guys and gals looking at upgrading the motor on my 4.1 poly looking at a few options just after some opinions / advice . Motors that i am considering are e-tec , 4 stroke efi mercury , 4 stroke yamaha and possibly a tohatsu all motors are 50 hp and tiller steer. Any feedback will be much appriciated as i have no idea how the new breed of outboards perform these days.
many thanks Wayne.
Wouldn't consider it. The hull is only rated to 40HP for a tiller steer configuration.
Keithy P
17-07-2010, 16:53
Gday Wayne,
I dont know about hull ratings, but I do believe that the 50 4 stroke Yammy is the same size as the 60, and I recon it would be a lot heavier than you would want on a 4.1.
Just my 2c
dirty dog
17-07-2010, 16:57
thanks barry have spoken to poly craft and the new 4.1 hulls are rated at 50 hp for tiller as mine is a late model they said it is no problem going to 50 hp and they have sent me a new plate stating that the hull is now rated to 50 hp
hay mate , I upgraded from a 30-2 stroke to a 40-4 stroke yammy and love it to bits, great motor and very lite on petrol.
All the motors you are thinking about will do the job very well, what you need to look at is the dealer, do you trust him to look after you and your motor once you have paid the asking price.
Paul
Wow,
What a post to stir the pot.
Hmmmm lets see,
1. All 50HP motors put out 50HP of power but also consider that 2 stroke do it every 2nd stroke not 4th hence better hole shot power.
2. 2 strokes come in carby & injected...well that speaks for itself, injected is cleaner, more efficient, quiet, & reliable.
3. Weight is a factory because its all power to weight if you have the same HP, but if I lost 20Kg myself Hmmm Ide save heaps of fuel LOL.
4. The actual working parts on modern injected 2 strokes head is only a few with 4 strokes having 100's. Maintenance is the next with the costs of servicing to look at & compare.
With all this said I haven't even mentioned a Brand but these are the factors I weighted up in my decision when I bought mine. IN MY OPINION, All Modern INJECTED 2 strokes are leaps ahead of all other outboard & you would be going backwards in upgrading to something else.
I have had this discussion Sooooo many times with many people but never has anyone given me a factor to make choose a 4 stroke over a modern Injected 2 Strike,
Cheers
Mark
dirty dog
18-07-2010, 08:00
Thanks mark i am leaning towards the 2 strokes i am just concerned about the emissions rating i think that the e-tec is the only one with the 3 star rating at present , as i want to do some travelling and fish a few dams in the future the way things are going i think sooner rather than later you will not be allowed on them unless your motor meets these standards saying that a 4 stroke still isn't out of the question . Will go to the Sydney boat show and try to make sense out of the dealers waffle who knows maybe i'll get an offer i can't refuse. By the way Mark which motor did you end up deciding on ,are you happy with it and any teething problems.
Look, the 2-stroke vs 4-stroke (or etec vs the world) thing has been discussed to death, we don't need to start that again. Go to ausfish, search for etec and get a bucket of popcorn ready. My advice - decide how you'll be using the boat and choose the type of motor accordingly.
As for reliability, the general consensus seems to be that Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki is at the top, but in general most motors are pretty reliable nowadays. Choose a motor that can be serviced locally by a GOOD mechanic. No good having the latest, greatest smicko motor and you have to drive 1000's of km's to have it serviced or wait months for parts.
I would also just say if you want to go for a Tohatsu, keep in mind they are very old-school tech which is good if you want to service it yourself but they ARE very noisy, smelly and suck the juice.
dirty dog
18-07-2010, 08:42
Yes i agree Will i do not want to start another debate about e-tecs v's everything else just after peoples experience with the modern outboards to try an help me make a decision the factors you have said are also a prime cosideration . I have read multiple threads on lots++ of motors and from what i can see all have good and bad points as well as initial teething problems , i certainally will keep in mind what you have said about the Tohatsu though many thanks for your advice.
polyFrank
18-07-2010, 12:07
I agree with poly and Will. 4 stroke motor with a dealer handy.
4 stroke motors are relatively quiet, smooth and economical. Having now got one I would not go back to a 2 stroke.
2 strokes have more power, but with a 50hp on a 4.1 hull I don't see you having a problem with that.
Cheers
I just want to clarify my point,
I did NOT mention any Brands in my post. I clearly stated MY OPINION in the difference between the options available to us.
Good service mechanic & spare parts is an absolute must, But I also didn't mention 3yrs warranty & NO SERVICES required for 3 YRS. That sounds reliable to me. I also didn't mention that in 3 1/2 years I have only needed 1 set of plugs, Hmmm
"As for reliability, the general consensus seems to be that Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki is at the top" Will is this a fact or your opinion based on ?????
Dirty Dog... Listen to options but best of all listen to your friends who own and run the motors, then choose one that suits you and your budget. Problem is that if someone buys a type of motor they never say, Yeah its great but I should have bought ????? LOL
Cheers
Mark
PS I have owned a 20 Merc 2 stroke, Yamaha 60 4 stroke & now a E-Tech, so I CAN talk from personal experience. Not "they say" or I read somewhere" LOL
bushbeachboy
18-07-2010, 16:24
Wayne, also consider the user friendliness of the motor. The positioning of the trim/tilt switch in particular. My order of preference is 1. Honda. 2. Yamaha. 3. Etec.
I personally own a Yamaha, 40 2 stroke carby with PTT. The PTT switch is located at the forward end of the tiller handle, but not ON the end like an Etec. This locates the thumb of your left hand directly over the switch so you only need one hand to drive. The Honda is better, with the PTT switch located in the twist handle so that it is in a constant postion in relation to your thumb. The Etec has the PTT switch located ON the end of the tiller handle, so it is still able to be used one handed, but is not quite so ergonomically friendly.
To find which one suits you best, go to each dealership and sit in a boat with one fitted, and try them.
Any of the other outboard brands are (atm) not true one-handed operations. In a boat as stable as a 4.1 poly, being able to hang on with the other hand while you do mother-in-law turns is a part of the fun. With the one-handed operation, you can trim your motor down in tighter turns if you need to without letting go your other hand.
Any of the outboard brands will have comparable performance for the same horsepower. For the 4.1 poly check the weight of the motor too.
Personally, I'd be happy to have Etec/Honda/Yamaha. Check prices, compare service schedules and service costs. Ask around about dealers in your area with other boat owners, they will generally give you an unbiased opinion of the service they have been given and the costs etc.
If the prices were comparable, I'd probably go the Etec for its 3-year no scheduled service. You might also get a SS prop on the Etec (not sure about that though). The SS prop is a big bonus if you regularly fish very shallow waters in muddy or sandy areas, because you will very quickly wear down an alloy prop if (like me) you do a bit of plowing.
Good luck with it mate.2thumbsup
polyFrank
18-07-2010, 21:29
Get a 4 stroke
Dont get the merc, cause about 150 hours in you will have to pay a mechanic to remove the powerhead and fix the stupid water seal that rusts closed. 50hp model that is.
dirty dog
20-07-2010, 08:40
Thanks Andy starting to narrow down the field now.
Hi, I'm a new member and will introduce myself shortly however I thought I'd mention what I have chosen to complete my new 4.1 side console challenger after quite a bit of research. I decided to go with a 50 TLDI Tohatsu. It's weight is 95kgs and therefore approx 10-15kg lighter than a four stroke, in addition has the quite economical advantages of the four stroke yet the punch typical of a two. You will also find it will cost less than a four stroke. Hope this helps. Aaron-R
________
YAMAHA QY10 SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.yamaha-tech.com/wiki/Yamaha_QY10)
Learjohn
20-07-2010, 23:36
Well guys, I have owned Mercury, Tohatsu, Johnston. At present own 2 Yamaha's and a Tohatsu. Had both 4 stroke and 2 Stroke. And I love them all. Most motors now are pretty reliable, so pick the one that suits your purpose the best. yippyyippyyippy
I found this the other day which is always interesting. Thought it might help you with 50HP motors, Dirty Dog
http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/Tools/Maintenance-Calculator?engineHorsePower=E-TEC_50&engineBoat=1&maintenanceType=ManufacturerMaintenance
Cheers
Mark
More fool anyone, that pays a bloke that much to pull out a drain plug and replace the oil over 3 years. 2 stroke car motors never did take offshocklaugh1
Keithy P
02-08-2010, 20:01
I'm with you on that one Giffo. I'm glad Mr Bombadier recons he doesn't have to see my donk for 3 yr or 300 hrs, but I'm gonna be doing at least my impeller and gear box oil, maybe have a peek at the thermostat, after 50 hrs, then maybe every 100hrs after that depending on the observed condition.
'Snot often I agree with Keithy (well, be honest, he's usually wrong - just ask Mrs Keithy), but if I owned an Etec (God forbid) I would have the oil changed and "a quick look round" more often than Evinrude suggests. Not that I'm cynical or anything, just a realist. This comment is based on "passing remarks" from professional mechanics in the field.
I'm digging in now chasps, please, no live ammunition................!
OI YOU LOT....
this is not a democrasy..
You WILL buy a 50hp Suzuki!! 2 stroke suck...laugh1
nah kidding.. everyone has a diff opinions on the different motors so the decision is yours to live with and pay for..
one important thing i did pick up from all the arguements on here about 2vs4stroke v brand name is to pick a motor that a close dealer stocks and services... that way its not a marathon to get work done...
one of the guys up here brought his boat with a Mercury brand motor up here and the local dealer wont service it because he doesnt sell them... and we only have one dealer/mechanic... doh
Pirate Pete
02-08-2010, 21:49
The newly released Suzi 60hp 4 stroke only weighs 104Kg . . . . . . . . . .
& a 50Hp Etec weighs 109kgs . . . . . . . .
Keithy P
02-08-2010, 22:27
Just a thought..... (ignoring personal jibes directed in my personal direction)
How often has anyone ever heard someone slag their chosen brand of outboard. If you look hard enough through out the internet, it is possible to find complaints about a particular quality of a persons engine, but how often do you hear someone really bitch about the brand they have bought??
I think there are surely pros and cons to every brand, I am responsible for the maintenance on a range of yammis, I've owned other outboards but
I LOVE my E-TEC
Coincidence????
Or is it because I just paid a heap of money for it, and it takes me fishing.
and it happens to be the best outboard ever produced
The newly released Suzi 60hp 4 stroke only weighs 104Kg . . . . . . . . . .
& a 50Hp Etec weighs 109kgs . . . . . . . .
Strange comment when the 50 & 60 ETech are the same weight,
As silly as saying a Suzuki DF40 weighs 110Kg (http://www.hainessuzukimarine.com.au/content.aspx?pageID=26&mainID=3) & a 60 ETech is 109Kg.
Wouldn't you say Suzi 60hp 4 stroke only weighs 104Kg & the 60 Etech weighs 109Kg. So that comparison then still means crap cause the POWER of the Any Direct Injected 2 Stroke will kick ass over any 4 stroke of the Same HP. ATM
Geeeese if you are also having a issue over 5Kg you must be catching shit fish LOL, just one Longtail will be over 10Kg's hahahaha & who ever catches just one?
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy350/Markrel/DSC05304.jpg
Keep it real
Mark
Pirate Pete
03-08-2010, 17:42
The new Suzi has had a big weight reduction 42% less than the old model & is now 104Kg . . . .
4.50_Drifter
03-08-2010, 18:02
The newly released Suzi 60hp 4 stroke only weighs 104Kg . . . . . . . . . .
& a 50Hp Etec weighs 109kgs . . . . . . . .
when will that 5kg difference come into play? planning on bench pressing the motor?
4.50_Drifter
03-08-2010, 18:07
Nice fish Mark.
Keithy you are spot on mate.. I had an 85 Yammy 2-stroke...just about everything went wrong with it but I did love it...anyone that bagged Yammies and I would get my back up...with the wisdom of old age I now realise that it was a @#$%ing piece of @#!%.
starter motor $1,000
disintegrated impellor and service $300
coil spark thingy on top $400 and fitting
i'm sure i'm forgetting a couple more grand...anyway it was expensive...
Very soon I will have an E-tec :)
starter motor $1,000
disintegrated impellor and service $300
coil spark thingy on top $400 and fitting
i'm sure i'm forgetting a couple more grand...anyway it was expensive...
Very soon I will have an E-tec
after all that you are going back to a two stroke,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, how very strange
:D Paul :D
Direct injected 2 stroke IS NOT the same as a Carby 2 Stroke.
So he is going from a OLD school inefficient motor to a extremely advanced, highly technical motor engineered to perfection.
How very strange, NO! how very smart........LOL
I spoke to soon about the Merc. Another one bites the dust. Yacht club rescue boat is up around the 150 hour mark and its now overheating. Still no solution from Merc. According to the mechanic you just have to replace the grommit and hope for the best.
4.50_Drifter
03-08-2010, 22:02
Direct injected 2 stroke IS NOT the same as a Carby 2 Stroke.
So he is going from a OLD school inefficient motor to a extremely advanced, highly technical motor engineered to perfection.
How very strange, NO! how very smart........LOL
Mark is wise beyond his years boys....
Keithy P
03-08-2010, 22:23
Hey Andy,
We had a problem like that with a 60hp yammy 4, intermittent overheating. We figured it couldn't be a cooling problem as the telltail was going strong.
The mechanic searched but couldn't find a solution, we were going to remove the rocker cover to have a look inside but had to wait for a replacement gasket to arrive from Japan before we could crack it. I lost patients and just cracked the side cover and what do you know, there was a small peice of anode that must have broken off at some point and worked its way into the galleries. I removed it and that completly solved the problem.
Just a thought, sometimes the solution is easier than everyone thinks
Hey Andy,
We had a problem like that with a 60hp yammy 4, intermittent overheating. We figured it couldn't be a cooling problem as the telltail was going strong.
The mechanic searched but couldn't find a solution, we were going to remove the rocker cover to have a look inside but had to wait for a replacement gasket to arrive from Japan before we could crack it. I lost patients and just cracked the side cover and what do you know, there was a small peice of anode that must have broken off at some point and worked its way into the galleries. I removed it and that completly solved the problem.
Just a thought, sometimes the solution is easier than everyone thinks
Its a well known problem with the merc unfortunately. I am assuming that this is the problem, but maybe I should wait for the mechanic before I start throwing stones. The impellor was changed 6 months ago, maybe 15-20 hour of use.
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