FOILS

[perko]

Has anyone had good success with any particular brand of foil on the new 4.5 meter drifters. What problems did you find that the foil helped with?

[HighWay]

Mate,
I,m about to fit a permatrim to my brand new 4.1 Challenger c/c . I love the boat and its been going great but it porpoises like mad unless the motor is fully trimmed down. I am running a 50hp zuke, max HP for the hull, and its great as well. I spoke to the permatrim manufacturer and he was telling me its not uncommon with the polys. He said one major dealer in Qld fits them as standard equipment. Won,t have the boat in the water with the permatrim fitted till the 29th, but will let you know asa soon as how it goes.

[Doug]

I suggest you look at the threads on "Smart Tabs" before you buy a permatrim. Better performance for about the same money. No holes in your motor either (Beware if you own a Tohatsu).

Barry has the tabs on his 4.1 and he hasn't managed to sink it yet, so they must be good!

[polymack]

sweet!
i got a 4.10 open with a honda 50 on it. it seems to take a bit to get up on the plane and really digs in. I was going to look at trim tabs but if the permatrim foil does the job that would be better for me as i want to add a rear ladder for diving. so for sure don't forget us!!

[McGyver]

hi perko, i have the older 4.55 with a 60 yammy and i have a seamaster hydrofoil on it which was fitted when i bought it. In my oppinion anything that gives the poly's some extra lift in the arse is a bonus, but if it was my choice from the start i like the sound of the smart tabs. Also with my boat, it is a dog with higher speed sharp turns, it cavitates pretty bad. i may very well scrap the foils for some tabs when my new prop shows up, im going 2 pitches higher so with a higher speed i can only guess its going to cavitate more.

[HighWay]

so for sure don't forget us!!


My permatrim arrived today, overnight post, great service from Marinedirect. It will be pro fitted next weekend, and tested the next. I am going remote(no puter) for a month after that. Will get one run on flat water b4 I go, will post results, will have much better feedback when I get back. I,m confident it will help, how much we will see, promise to tell all,

cheers

[HighWay]

Well I had to wait a week longer than first thought to test drive the permatrim. Just back from the first run and ITS AMAZING.

Only been on flat water(had to run over my own wake to get some bumps) but am confident it will be terrific in all conditions.

FACTS no porpoising, zero, zilch, none

reduced minimum planing speed by nearly 2 knots

can tilt the motor right through from full down to way up whilst on the plane with out any dramas

did tight turns at speed with no dramas

can,t comment on the hole shot, it was good before but I will need to have a few people in the boat to know

[HighWay]

I got mine fitted by an experianced outboard mechanic. He reckoned it was probably a good idea unless your a "handy" type. I reckon the labour was money well spent as I am not a "handy" type. The change in performance was significant, and all good.

I am led to believe one major polycraft dealer in nth Qld fits the permatrims as standard fittings on all sales. I know I have only had one go, but I didn,t even take a fishing rod, just spent several hours playing with speeds and motor trims and I can,t believe how much positive improvement from the installation.

[polymack]

can anybody tell me if the holes are pre drilled on the permatrim foils?
looks like my motors had 2 different kinds on it, so theres a set of unused holes on my motor

[Dave]

Polymack, your 4.1 with a 50 on it should leap out of the water.

If it bogs down then I would suggest you look at the way you trim it or even the mounting height on the boat.

If the transom digs in, I would imagine you have the motor trimmed too far out.

I find with my 4.55, it requires constant trim adjustments to get the best out of it, as it is slightly under powered with the 50.

[polymack]

it does bog down a little bit but my biggest problem is trying to turn at while on the plain, i'm not sure what the term is (cavitating??) lose all power for a few seconds motor revs up, makes loud sucking noise and the girls at the front of the boat sh** them selves. this even happens on wide sweeping turns at near top speed. I've herd that permatrim helps fix this?

[chin]

A permatrim probably won't fix the cavitation on turns polymack, it didn't make any difference to my 4.55 anyway.
Lifting or lowering the motor one hole is more likely to have an effect.
They do not come pre-drilled.

[Miss Jane]

My hairdresser is good at foils, the colour range is amazing!

[polymack]

cool i'll have to have a look when i get home

i don't know if i'll be able to lower the motor anymore can anyone tell me?

( i'm away from home to check )

[McGyver]

cool i'll have to have a look when i get home

i don't know if i'll be able to lower the motor anymore can anyone tell me?

( i'm away from home to check )

Does not look like you can lower yours any without re-drilling holes, but if i had to guess i bet your motor is too low anyway like mine is.

Go for a test spin on the water and when on the plane the cav plate should just be out of the water (5-10mm). The zone is below the cav plate and above the water pick up vents.

A outboard mounted too low might cause cavitation too.

[zone5]

Well, I've tried SE200, went to Permatrim, then tried Smart Tabs and have taken them off and will stick with the Permatrim. Best result, simplest easiest fitting and minimal interference with the rest of the boat. Handy plus is that it's a good boarding step...

Whether the Permatrim assists ventilation (not cavitation) in the turn seems to depend on the motor. We seemed to get some benefit in that area because on the 50 hp E-tec it mounts far enough forward for the wide part of the foil to cover the propeller. Most benefit was achieved with the Solas prop.

Smart Tabs did the job (sort of) but dragged pretty big holes thru the water, more drag, lost speed and created a funny rooster tail behind the boat. As I wake-board behind the little poly wtf that was undesirable, as was losing the boarding ladder and the fragility of the set-up when beaching stern-to... The Permatrim doesn't use a fully buried lifting surface like the SE foils, it's more of a water ski that planes on the surface, nice low drag and a flat wake, not what you want for boarding either but hey, a 4.1 is never going to give a nice, liquid launch ramp!

I would also advise against dropping the motor too far in an attempt to cure ventilation in turns - pushing the thrust line lower just increases the bow up pitching moment on the boat, counter-productive when getting on the plane (and inefficient for general running). The correct height for your motor is when the top of the anti-ventilation plate is dry - ie the bottom of the plate is sitting on on the top of the water - running at planing speed. On the 4.1 we have the motor as high as possible, I can read the Permatrim sticker (no it hasn't peeled off because it doesn't get water running over it 2thumbsup) by looking over my shoulder when running at planing speed.

chrs jc

[DvrDve]

aeration(ventilation) is what u have
cavitaiton is a very special problem where the low pressure zone on the trailing edge actaully causes the water to "boil" on the trailing edge ,sometimes visible as lil pitt marks on the trailing edge
i fitted a seamater skeg- didnt know of any others then
4.1 with a 30 2 stroke - made a big difference out of hole etcplanes at lower speed
catches more fish lol

[polymack]

i bit the bullet and put a permatrim on my motor monday. will test it out on friday to see if it has made much difference. the old foil ( 2 piece black plastic ) was a few inches underwater at planing speed creating a small rooster tail from the foil cutting into the water at most positions of trim so i think i will also have to lift the motor as well, will find out on friday,
thanks for the info
would never have thought to raise the motor with the issue i was having

[McGyver]

i bet you will be impressed, i had the same type as you two black plastic pieces, i think it was called a sea master. Anyway i went for a test run with my new custom ally one on tuesday and i was impressed alot more lift, nearly all porpoising has gone and the big bonus now i can turn sharper at speed without cavitation. I am however pretty disappointed with who ever set my boat up because im sure it has the wrong motor on it (leg length), i moved it up two holes and still cant see the cav plate even coming close to breaking surface when on the plane. I have lifted it about 40mm and i think it needs another 50.

[DvrDve]

i just raised my motor - 30hp tiller previous owner/shop just squared it up to transom clamped it (got 2 screw down clamps then drilled it in place
sadly they drilled the bottom hole so i now have ti2 holes i ll have to patch
anyway it seems on the 4.1 the motor cavitation plate need to be about 25 -35 mm above the bottom of the hull
gonna raise it a bit more tomorrow
i am almost keen to get rid of the foil to see the difference as the whole boat handles differently
more was achieved by raising the motor an inch than anything else i have tried
she is light on the tiller compared to having a sore arm from fighting the prop torque
i can also trim about 12 degree more out before the porpoising starts - however it is much less than before
increased top end form 18.5 to 22 kn

[McGyver]

previous owner/shop just squared it up to transom clamped it (got 2 screw down clamps then drilled it in place


This is also how mine was mounted, just rested on transom and bang in go the holes. real lazy fitting