24v Bow Mount Install

[Fishmarket]

Hi guys, I've done a big U turn with my Bow mount selection and now have an 80lb model on its way. I'll be using 2 full river 120ah AGM's and want to know about the best method for a 24v setup ... Parallel or Series wiring of the batteries?... will one give me more run time than the other? I guess I will require a Kill Switch, In line 60amp circuit breaker (draws 56 amps) and already have a set of Anderson Plugs to use for a quick connection method. Would really appreciate anyone who has already done one of these ... I seem to recall there being a couple of members with electrical background ... being struck by lightning does not count.

Thanks
Matt

[McGyver]

im really sorry i didnt reply to your message matt in all honesty i totally forgot,
firstly for a 24V system you only have one connection method which is in series, if you link the batteres in parrallel you wont achieve 24V. To do this connect the positive of the motor to battery one positive, connect battery one negative to battery two positive and connect the negative of the motor to battery two negative.

Secondly this is the breaker im using dont go a cheap auto reset breaker they are POS. (scroll down to the 60A circuit breaker/trip switch)

http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page27.html

And as for the connectors im using a minn kota connector as it sits flush

http://www.justboating.com.au/Power-Plug-MKR-18---Heavy-Duty-40-Amp_p58B104CE-A6C2-4C13-86CC-0B0FC4F020F6.html

Also where abouts did you get the info about the RT80 drawing FLC of 56A that seams way to high to me.

[DvrDve]

24 v systems normally runs more efficient(less energy loss due to internal resistance etc) -however with 2 x12v in parrallel if 1 battery dies u allways got a backup more 12v stuff around and need smaller diameter wire etc also potential harging from motor alternator on 12v system

series add voltage together of batteries, amps stays the same- or the lowest of the 2 if not the same batteries
parrallel volts stays same as original voltage of battery (eg 12) but the amps get added together

if u had the the wattage of the motor u wanna use, one could worrk out roughly how many minutes of running u could get out of the batteries-pm me if u want

if u r planning to run in series -allways make sure the 2 bateries have the same power output -otherwise u wil cook the smaller one

[Brucesta]

truck battery in the front perhaps, keep the 12V system as it is? i would need to question how a outboard would go charging a 24VDC system from it's alternator, i'm half cut so brain is not functioning, surely the motor at best is pumping 13.8-14.4VDC at best.

My brain says keep the cct separate and charge your 24VDC battery after every trip on a trickle charge, 600mA or something like that for 24 hours.

[Brucesta]

i just re-read that post, i'm well on the way. bring on POETS day with a good hangover!

[McGyver]

DvrDve and brucesta you guys have absolutely lost me with your posts and i am a sparky :)

Firstly what energy loss is less due to internal resistance? Also amps will decrease with a 24V system not be the same.

No the alternator will not be able to charge the 24V system, and you will need a decent charger for the batteries aswell with 120AH batteries i would be using a charger with a 10A output

Fishmarket if you need to have a chat to someone because these posts get confusing send me a pm and ill shoot you my number.

[Brucesta]

wire your batteries in series, get a slightly bigger fuse/cct breaker as the inrush might trip it/ blow constantly, next size up from 60A will be fine. you can't wire them parallel as that keeps the voltage (assuming 12VDC batteries) the same just with more Ah capacity.

find a suitable switch rated for at least 100A to be sure Hella do one i'm sure but regardless they are not hard to find. wire as McGyver has said with the switch and fuse on the positive line inbetween the battery and the anderson plug.

easier to write this sober now

[DvrDve]

Mcgyver- i am by no way a sparkie, but my marine engineering ticket had some low voltage in
we are talking DC circuits -why are we not running dc power in homes - resistance in circuits become to high- we would need a generator every 4-5 kms
internal resistance in any given circuit will be same, however 12v will lose more energy to overcome this resistance than 24v therefore more loss of E in 12v than 24v
something of 12 v has less potential difference to push the electrons thru compared to 24 v

anyway that what i was told many years ago in an engineering course- hopefully physics hasnt changed much since
would be intertested to hear how the amps decrease in the series setup

[Fishmarket]

No worries McGyver. I think I understand the whole Parallel / Series thing now, In parallel will just give twice the capacity (240ah) but not 24v. I can't seem to find my source regarding the 56 amps ... but believe this to be the max amp draw and my 55lb drew 45 amps?
Next question ... if that is indeed the case is a 40 amp plug going to suffice for the 80lb model? Also with the cable, I notice that the septics use the 6 B&S for their wire terms ... what is this over here? I seem to recall I had 10 mm with my last Minn Kota ... I'd rather have massive overkill than a melted mess on the floor. Sourcing a decent 60 amp breaker is my main mission today. Is their any point having a Battery switch on this circuit or does the breaker act like one too? Sorry for all the questions but I'm learning and interested ... a good and bad combination I guess. Thanks for all the info guys.
Ta
Matt

[McGyver]

DC is expensive and say goodbye to induction motors which are in all your appliances, i might just keep this post to boats and not houses because page long posts are no fun to read. :)

i am buying the same electric as you fishmarket by the sounds of it RT80 ST/AP/CP/IP

full load current of this motor should be in the mid to high 30 range, and the RT55 by memory was around 47Amps. I am using the 40A plug and the 40A circuit breaker in the link i posted it also has a on/off function so no isolator is needed its a good bit of gear.

DvrDve for example if the RT55 has a 550W motor and a RT80 has a 800W motor

RT55
current=power/voltage
current=550/12
current=45.8A

RT80
current=power/voltage
current=800/24
current=33.3A

As for cable size i will use the minkota lead to the plug and i have bulk 16mm flex at home so thats what i will be using between the battery and the circuit breaker and between the circuit breaker to the plug recepticle. 10mm will be sweet

[Fishmarket]

mmm interesting. Everywhere I look I get figures of 56 amps as an "on the water, under load" figure ... even the manual says 56 amps at full noise ...

http://www.northlandmarine.com/images/Terrova/Terrova%2080-09.pdf

Now I"m confused.

Cheers
Matt

[Fishmarket]

Okay, right from the horses mouth .. well BLA that is: The 80lb Terrova draws 56 amps, requires a 60amp Circuit breaker and they have repeatedly asked dealers to stop selling the 40amp plug ... purely for the reason they only make 3 motors that this plug is suitable for. Explanation for the amp draw is the 2 motors ... for steering and the propulsion .. I'm still confused .. but thats not really surprising!!!!

Ta
Matt

[BarryJ]

The brief instruction booklet which came with my 55lb Minn Kota recommended the installation of a 60A circuit breaker in the 12V circuit. Seemed a bit of an over-kill to me but I did it anyway.

[McGyver]

oh well looks like i will need to get a bigger c/b they must have tonker motors in them, i will still use the plug and do some mods to it for the the higher current as i still want a flush mount waterproof fitting. Thanks for the info Matt!

cheers Lindsay

[Fishmarket]

Just thought I would update this thread. The Minn Kota 80lb Terrova with Ipilot has arrived. I have 2x 120ah Fullriver AGM's waiting for pickup tonight and have just received my 24v Ctek charger in the post today. I've not had much luck sourcing a suitable 60 amp circuit breaker and BLA don't sell one. I'm not paying stupid money from the U.S for one so BLA have said "use a 50 amp" ... I guess the breaker tripping early is better than tripping later. I'll start the install this weekend. Now for the question ... Do I legally need to have my batteries each in a proper battery box? I was thinking of making up a box myself to house the 2 batteries and wiring then using this as part of an extended platform in front of the centre console. I'll get some pics up of the install ... and of my arms after digging out all that feckin foam!!!!!

thanks
Matt

[McGyver]

in my post at the top of this page i posted a link to the sidewinder website they have 60Amp circuit breakers and they are not expensive and they are an australian seller.

[Fishmarket]

Thanks Mate, forgot to put my eyeballs in this morning.

Matt

[Fishmarket]

Got the 80lb iPilot attached to the deck on the weekend, needs a little leveling still. Also cut the bow rail and just need an end cap to finish it off.
Sorry for the crap pics but you get the idea ...

[Craiglh]

Looks good Matt

I am still waiting for my Kota but have managed to run the wiring for it down the inside of the hull.

From the inspection port in the anchor well I was able to feed some 13mm(?) black reticulation pipe over the top of the foam and down to the very back of the boat. I then jammed the wire inside the retic pipe for about 6"; went down the back and pulled the pipe through and the wire came with it yippy

Not as easy as it sounds (never bloody is) and took me a few hours to do it - the retic pipe wouldn't always go through smoothly or down to the back; it kinked a few times which meant I couldn't push it any further - solved that by feeding an extension cord inside the retic pipe to help it retain its' shape (cut the plug off the extension cord obviously) and a few times the wire separated from the retic pipe which was frustrating!!

So now have to feed the wire plus other wires for the sounder etc to the Centre Console where the Kota battery will be placed.

I plan to drill a hole in the inspection port cover in the anchor well and feed the wire from the kota through that and connect to the power wire via an anderson plug. Screw the inspection port in place and it will all be tucked away.

If I am going fishing out wide and not using the Kota then it will be taken off and a spare inspection port cover screwed in (no hole).

Sounds good I reckon - just got to do it:)

cheers

Craig

[Mark]

Hi Guys,
I have been running with a 24VDC Motorguide for over 3 years and also use a 50AMP CB that came already setup with my trolling panel & wiring. Straight from the factory the connection plug is same for 12V & 24V. I use 2 x Std lead acid batteries (Deep Cycle) in series seperate from my crank battery. These Batteries weigh the same as AGM & Glass but DONT have the charging issues. I use a 12 Voly charger on my cranking Battery & the Minn-Kota DC charger looks after the rest. If you dont know, I have a 17' Triumph and have used it many times in Elec only Bass Tournaments and have never had a issue yet. BLA suck & dont sell the DC Alternator charger here in Australia but you can easily buy on the net & or Ebay. I know you can alternator charge your trolling batteries with many other setups but this one by MinnKota is a single setup staright out of the box, seald waterproof & shockproof WITH cable & inline fuses. I thought is was an excellent buy.
Have a pic made up to help yas all.

http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy350/Markrel/Batterysetup.jpg

Cheers
Mark