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  #161  
Old 11-09-2013, 16:43
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well exactly. rather someone go away feeling like they got the best value product for their needs.

whats that old Chinese saying. "death by a thousand cuts:P"
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  #162  
Old 11-09-2013, 16:57
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Nice Youtube flick Moose,, that explains my question 100%.

When Lowrance and HB went head to head in legal proceedings no one really knows what happened in the court room, however at that time Lowrance had the LSS1 Box and LSS1 Transducer on the open market... straight after the court battle was over Lowrance discontinued the LSS1 released the LSS2 Black Box and Transducer.

I understand that the LSS2 is HD, did anything else change from the LSS1 to the LSS2... I did read somewhere that the LSS1 used a different frequency setup to the current LSS2.. if this just dribble or is there any truth to it?

I thought there may have been some copyright infringement which forced Lowrance to change its technology.

Thanks'

Adam

Last edited by UltraV; 11-09-2013 at 17:01. Reason: spelling
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  #163  
Old 11-09-2013, 17:34
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we dont really know what happened with the court case. nobody at lowrance that i talk to knows so it was obviously a high up only affair. but i fear it was more an infringement on the concept or what not. they changed and added twice the elements to the transducer . which does give a better image. as for freq. they have been the same as far as i know.
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  #164  
Old 11-09-2013, 18:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chocolatemoose View Post
i sold a guy today a simrad nss7 who came in to buy a hds9 "what the hell was i thinking!?"
What made him change his mind then?


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  #165  
Old 11-09-2013, 18:34
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He was wanting a few other bits for his boat and the nss did everything for him and allowed him to get it all and have a few bucks left
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  #166  
Old 11-09-2013, 18:35
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ok - so it was just cheaper.

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  #167  
Old 11-09-2013, 19:04
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Well that and he fisges out theheads of ppb. So structure scan isnt a big priority. And the 500w transducer included in the pack
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  #168  
Old 11-09-2013, 20:00
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Hey Splash, after my visit BCF visit today I have also decided to run with the Simrad LSS7. I played with their demo models for about an hour.

Partly cost driven but also feature driven. I always like to have options...

1. Can be used for Chirp if desired.
2. Can be interlinked with GO Free so a much bigger screen can be used at very minimal cost. $400.00 will buy a 10inch WiFi 2560x1600 Google Nexus tablet, connect this via the GO FREE and the NSS7 not only has two screens on the boat but has the equivalent display only found with big ticket $$$ units.
3. Has the ability to run Structure and Down Imaging scan with LSS2.
4. Performs extremely well with navigation and apparently tracks with very little lag.
5. Excellent operating platform, and I really like the knob adjustment and the touch screen...very simple gain control.
6. Has a well regarded reputation in terms of reliability and construction.
7. All in all easy to use, good quality unit with many options. More Sonar Options than you will find with any other unit.

Navico owns both Lowrance and Simrad and from what I can gather the HDS Lowrance units are aimed towards your general trailer boat market whereas the Simrad models are aimed at the yachting community. This might be why the Simrad build quality seems to be a little better... anyway just my personal thoughts.

Cheers

Adam
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  #169  
Old 11-09-2013, 20:12
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yeah pretty much on the mark there

navico owns lowrance simrad and B&g

simrad is there comercial division also tailors well for the crusing market "its native autopilot for example... dont laugh its getting cheaper:P" where as the lowrances you can still connect autopilot too. just need another simrad based control unit.

b&g is similar to simrad but is tailored for the yachting community with laylines built in etc.
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  #170  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:21
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adam,

well done ultraV on making a decision to select a unit and a good summary. i hope this thread has been helpful for you.

many would state that the hds 7 touch matches every point you raised - except #5 (the knob) and perhaps #1 (chirp).

what water depths are you fishing and how far out from shore are you boating?

-------------------------------------

some questions for anyone to answer......

1 - hds 7 touch allows you to trackback in history and mark waypoints/icons without any scroll limitations. is this also possible on the nss7?

2 - what is the screen resolution and screen physical dimension on the simrad nss7 compared to the hds7 touch?

3 - do you need to buy a dedicated chirp transducer (and not the lss-2 ducer) to take full advantage of chirp technology?

4 - what water depths is chirp technology best utilised?

5 - nss7 has built in Navionics Silver charting - why is this good?

6 - when is autopilot most advantageous to use?

7 - how does the price and warranty compare with nss7 and hds7 touch?

8 - does the nss7 have integrated structurescan?

9 - does the nss7 have scalable windows and data overlay (like the hds7)?

10 - what advantages does the knob on the nss7 have over the knobless hds7 touch (with autogain functionality)?

-------------------


some information on chirp to share:

- i understand that with the hds downscan, the target separation is that good that you can see individual bait in a bait school so perhaps chirp is not as important to me at this stage.

- here is a chirp link with all the detail/information you will ever need on chirp - http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-e...explained.html





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Last edited by Splash; 12-09-2013 at 07:18.
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  #171  
Old 12-09-2013, 05:28
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Hey Splash,
Could you number your questions so it's easier to answer them?

Ultra, I think Splash works for ASIO. Remember: YOU have the right to remain silent. HE has ways of making you talk......
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  #172  
Old 12-09-2013, 07:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash View Post
adam,

well done ultraV on making a decision to select a unit and a good summary. i hope this thread has been helpful for you.

many would state that the hds 7 touch matches every point you raised - except #5 (the knob) and perhaps #1 (chirp).

what water depths are you fishing and how far out from shore are you boating?

-------------------------------------

some questions for anyone to answer......

1 - hds 7 touch allows you to trackback in history and mark waypoints/icons without any scroll limitations. is this also possible on the nss7?

2 - what is the screen resolution and screen physical dimension on the simrad nss7 compared to the hds7 touch?

3 - do you need to buy a dedicated chirp transducer (and not the lss-2 ducer) to take full advantage of chirp technology?

4 - what water depths is chirp technology best utilised?

5 - nss7 has built in Navionics Silver charting - why is this good?

6 - when is autopilot most advantageous to use?

7 - how does the price and warranty compare with nss7 and hds7 touch?

8 - does the nss7 have integrated structurescan?

9 - does the nss7 have scalable windows and data overlay (like the hds7)?

10 - what advantages does the knob on the nss7 have over the knobless hds7 touch (with autogain functionality)?

-------------------


some information on chirp to share:

- i understand that with the hds downscan, the target separation is that good that you can see individual bait in a bait school so perhaps chirp is not as important to me at this stage.

- here is a chirp link with all the detail/information you will ever need on chirp - http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-e...explained.html





splash
1. Yes
2. nss7 =6.4" screen 640x480 hds7t = 7" screen 800x 480
3. you need to buy an additional module box + chirp transducer
4. depends on what kind of chirp. mid range lowpo would be good for 700f and less. great in 100 and less

5. the nss7 dosnt have built in silver charts??? silver cards give you full detail australia wide. but only untill 10mt of depth... then everything stops. the simrad bundle offered comes with a jeppesen cmap card .an AUS/NZ card with ... nearly as much detail as the navioncs gold card

6. when ever it is safe to do so.. its awesome! "but mostly offshore and away from ...stuff"
7. nss7 from 300-1000 dollars cheaper... the exact same 2 year warranty + 5 year advantage from navico

8. yes it has a touch screen built in

9. no. data bars are the same size on the top of the screen

10. both nss7 and hds7 have auto functions. the benifit of the control nob is to physically and rapidly change gain and colourline settings on the go. a physical button makes it easier to do on a boat. also makes zooming in and out easier on maps.
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  #173  
Old 12-09-2013, 10:34
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thanks moose.

what is the screen size and resolution for the 12" models for NSS12 and HDS12T?

That knob looks like a valuable tool. How do you prefer this knob over full touch (and no knob)?

Why is the NSS models cheaper than the NDS models then?


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  #174  
Old 12-09-2013, 10:43
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the hds12 runs a wxvga native screen 1200x800 the nss12 runs a xvga only 1024x768.... but you wouldnt be able to notice the difference

its cheaper because the HDS is the most current up to date unit. its like buying a "insert latest generation of holden.....what ever it is."...........compared to "insert the one previous generation of holden ....what ever it was" :P

i like the control knob personally. i think its dam usefull. esp when your leaning over and reaching for the screen etc.
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Last edited by chocolatemoose; 12-09-2013 at 10:46. Reason: forgot to add
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  #175  
Old 12-09-2013, 11:06
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Thansk Moose - do u think the knob coudl be the deal breaker for me if i was to choose between hds and nss?

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  #176  
Old 12-09-2013, 11:16
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i think you would be happy with either
just slighly poorer with the hds :P
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  #177  
Old 12-09-2013, 12:48
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Hi Splash

Thanks mate, yes I have found the thread interesting, it was good timing starting it when you did. :P

I am fishing inshore out of my 4.1, depth is really no more than 30 meters and probably more like 15-20 when fishing deeper sections.. flicking plastics will be in very shallow water..

The Chirp is of no benefit to me and the chirp ducer is very exy... however the option is available should I ever want it in the future.

The waterway I fish can be very baron in terms of its landscape but also has random structure scattered all over the place... hence why I was attracted to the Sidescan. I am sure I will find holes and Structures that are not marked on fishing charts and the like.

If I had a plotter /finder that was reasonable I probably would not be forking out the mulla for a new system, however all I have is a Lowrance 4x which come with the boat, this does not even have plotter/gps and uses a little itty bitty 4 inch screen. I cannot currently mark spots or track back in the dark.

The Simrad does require the LSS2 HD Black box for the DI and Structure Scan, so extra component and extra mucking around.. adding this bit of kit in does bring the pricing between the HDS7 and the NSS7 quite close together.

I recommend as KFish suggested.. go to your local Sonar retailer and play with the units...What one person likes the next person doesn't.... otherwise there would only be one brand and one model on the market

I found using Mens fingers on a 7 inch T display a little frustrating - and that's standing still in a shop not getting bounced about by wake, wind and swell... hence why I really like the control knob. I found both the HDS7 and The NSS7 interfaces a little different but each was very easy to use.. due to the larger screen size the HDS 10 and HDS 12 would obviously be different. It is still not an easy choice between the HDS7 and or the NSS7.. both have pro's and cons.
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  #178  
Old 12-09-2013, 15:58
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Thanks Adam.

You are a lucky man to have a great bit of kit :-) Many happy fishing adventures...

Whatever I end up getting, it will be placed on the bow and next to me as I control my MK electric motor - so being able to access it efficiently will be important - which is why the knob function is attractive to me - but I am thinking of going all the way and getting a 12" version. (knobs and inch dims are making me hard:-))

Anyway, it has been a great thread and everyone's input has been really helpful...

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  #179  
Old 12-09-2013, 19:58
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how is the 4:3 form factor of the 12" NSS screen larger than the 12" 16:10 widescreen (HDS-12 Touch)?


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  #180  
Old 12-09-2013, 21:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash;25970- here is a chirp link with all the detail/information you will ever need on chirp - [url
http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum/506221-chirp-sounders-fish-finder-explained.html[/url]


splash
Thankyou for the link Splash,

A fascinating and detailed article for someone who wants more 'depth' on Chirp technology. The audio analogies made it very easy for me to understand as that is a hobby of mine!

(I won't be adopting this yet as am happy enough with what I have (or so says the minister for finance ) but with the rate that the market is moving forward, who knows where we will be in a couple of years?)

Last edited by kfish; 12-09-2013 at 21:48.
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